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Joe Buck
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« on: May 30, 2008, 08:13:36 PM » |
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2 yrs. ago I had a small fireproof safe stolen. Sadly there were many irreplaceable items that went. The safe was never recovered.
All my important documents, contracts, bonds & insurance papers, gone. So I gradually started to replace these items, & to say the least it is a frustrating battle. Last week, I had a meeting with a new insurance agent, I had assigned to me. (my origanal agent had passed) The policies in force : adjustable life, disability, & IRA. I had started these policies when 21 & insurance co. is a major AAA rated co.
I had a shit load of questions to ask because my policy contracts were stolen. But to get to the crux of this post, my life insurance will pay out on suicide. The death benefit is approaching $400,000.00. Life & disability have waiver of premium.
From the terrible experience of my daughter Laura's death I learned money & life do not equate. I would of payed any amount of money to save her life. In Laura's short 6 month battle with leukemia, the bills exceeded $250,000.00.
We can all identify with the changing of rational & irrational thinking do to our illness. When I face suicidal idealation, will the knowledge of life insurance become a bargaining chip. This is one heady question, with no answer to it. Good news, bad news; you tell me.
Sponge Bob (Joe Buck)
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The Most I Can Do For My Friend
... Is Simply To Be His Friend—Thoreau
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Ramji
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2008, 08:44:39 PM » |
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Joe,
That's a tough one. My family has always been my reason for not killing myself ... only partly because most insurance doesn't cover suicide....
But mostly hinking of the pain and grief I would cause them.
It will be interesting to hear what others say. Meanwhile, we'll make this the longest topic ever, so you have to stay around just to read the next message.
We're family here ...
Stay with us.
Peace,
Ramji
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"Sometimes you're the pigeon, sometimes you're the statue."
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Joe Buck
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2008, 12:44:49 AM » |
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Ramji,
I have appox. 40 yrs of fighting Fred ( my name for BP). 23 yrs undiagnosed, 17 yrs diagnosed unipolar, & 7 yrs with correct diagnoses as BP. I had countless suicidal idealisations in those 40 yrs. I also used the same deterrent from committing suicide by flooding my suicidal idealization with thoughts of ruining the lives of my loved ones if I went through with it. BPD has the highest incident of suicide of all MI's. I have studied relentlessly for 7 yrs about brain disorders, especially BP. We are all aware that suicide in our society is totally unacceptable. The subject of suicide in mental heath, to me, is treated like a taboo. Mental health & us are aware of suicide, but open forums about suicide are not encouraged. Talking or learning about suicide my be contagious & be the catalysis to commit it. Like, "Oh suicide, don't think about it; there's nothing to worry about." I am not suicidal at present, so can dispel that thought. It's the stigma of suicide in most societies that make suicide, taboo. But is the major cause of death of BPD.
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The Most I Can Do For My Friend
... Is Simply To Be His Friend—Thoreau
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high maintenence
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2008, 03:45:35 AM » |
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I have read about suicide and then felt more courageous to do it,
But there are the times when I'm just not thinking straight and the
Pain and rage just flood my mind and leave me with no doubt that
I should just do away with myself for the same reasons that I think
That all of us feel. #1-of course is the fact that we don't want to
live with this FOREVER. Then there's #2-which is as you have said,
leaving the burden of money along with pain for your family. I have
heard some say that they are more suicidal when depressed than
when manic and some say opposite. I haven't decided, and it does
not really matter to me, b/c I believe either will push you over. I for
one think that the only way I could kill myself is to overdose. I am not
a person that could stand slitting my wrists or vaulting from a building,
or drowning, or burning, or hanging. That would be the only way for me.
As far as talking about it, and the relation of it's actual reprecussion, I
don't believe they are related. If you are going to do it, you are just
going to do it, and noone...noone can change your mind.
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Ramji
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« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2008, 05:50:25 AM » |
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Ramji,
I have appox. 40 yrs of fighting Fred ( my name for BP). 23 yrs undiagnosed, 17 yrs diagnosed unipolar, & 7 yrs with correct diagnoses as BP. I had countless suicidal idealisations in those 40 yrs. I also used the same deterrent from committing suicide by flooding my suicidal idealization with thoughts of ruining the lives of my loved ones if I went through with it. BPD has the highest incident of suicide of all MI's. I have studied relentlessly for 7 yrs about brain disorders, especially BP. We are all aware that suicide in our society is totally unacceptable. The subject of suicide in mental heath, to me, is treated like a taboo. Mental health & us are aware of suicide, but open forums about suicide are not encouraged. Talking or learning about suicide my be contagious & be the catalysis to commit it. Like, "Oh suicide, don't think about it; there's nothing to worry about." I am not suicidal at present, so can dispel that thought. It's the stigma of suicide in most societies that make suicide, taboo. But is the major cause of death of BPD.
Joe, I hope it didn't seem like I was trivializing your message. I meant well. I understand the suicide issue well. I made three attempts .... all with very serious intention. in one attempt I was saved by younger brother. We were teenagers. I know it had an awful impact on him. Anyway, that was the gist of my message. Ramji Ramji |
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"Sometimes you're the pigeon, sometimes you're the statue."
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Paz
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2008, 07:06:11 AM » |
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I have lost all 3 of my siblings to suicide...they were BP. You have no idea as to what it does to the people you leave behind, you ruin their lives forever. Do you really want to do that? I will not do that to myself, because I have seen firsthand what it does to the people left behind. It is the ultimate selfish act.....your pain is over, because you're dead, but the pain for your loved ones has just begun. I could go on & on, but I won't, as I have shed enough tears. And for the record, I have thought about it, but knowing what It would do to my family stops me and gets me to ask for help.
Pdoc says I'm a high risk for suicide, but he also knows that I would never do that to my family. This is why he monitors me so closely, and I am grateful for him and my therapist, and my meds. They really seem to be working, and I am overjoyed.
Paz.
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If you tremble indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine. - Che Guevara
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Phyllis
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2008, 08:34:54 AM » |
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I'm really surprised that your insurance covers suicide! I can't get life insurance with our current insurance company because I am BP. Our Financial Planner tried another company but apparently my Pdoc didn't send in the information to the insurance company to complete the application (The whole HIPA law and all). I'm not to worried about it. Hubby is saving money in case of my untimely demise. He takes good care of me like that.  Suicide - I think we have all thought about it. I know when I am depressed I think about how easy it would be to down all of my pills. But then I think about my luck and how I would probably live through it and have to face everyone in my "world" knowing that I did something really REALLY stupid and I would be completely humiliated. Then of course there are my kids, and I shiver at the thought that if anything happened to me my daughter would have to go live with her biological father - which there is a reason why I have custody and not him. But that is another story for another day... |
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clayton
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2008, 10:43:03 AM » |
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Kids certainly complicate everything!---particularly kids by an ex--sometimes I regret that I don't have any, but when I think I would have had to become a money machine to meet their needs, I think better of it. My information is that suicides generally become ghosts, so this has dissuaded me from seriously considering it---once, many years ago, before I knew that, I was going to blow my brains out with a Saturday Night Special--but something changed my mind--the urge to survive, I suppose. It was a .22, and I probably would just have messed up my brain and ended up in a wheelchair, or like Terry Schaivo.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law---Love is the law, love under will.
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jtokc
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2008, 12:52:59 PM » |
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You are right, clayton, never, never attempt suicide with a .22. I used to work for the cop shop and heard story after story about people who did this. They usually ended up maimed and brain damaged, but not dead. Choose your calibres carefully. Or, better yet, don't even contemplate it. We need everyone to realize that suicide is not a good solution.
Jane
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The endless, agonizing recycling of what might have been, soon followed by a litany of rationalizations and self-deceptions as you struggle to reconcile the void between the person you want to be and the person you fear you are.
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Joe Buck
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2008, 06:32:09 PM » |
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To All,
I want to thank all of you for your courage to bear your souls. High, you are unselfish to share your thoughts on such a difficult subject. Ramji you did not trivialize.In face to face support groups one can better explain ones self with verbal exchange vs the disconnection of the internet. Paz my deepest sympathy for the loss of your siblings. Phyllis, I believe in 1971, when I purchased life policy, suicide was not covered. My new agent (agent for 38 yrs) explained there was a law passed (time?) that all life policies had to cover suicide. There is a 2 year grace period that suicide is not covered. With you with BPD, life ins. co.'s rate you as a preexisting condition, thus refusing coverage. If you ever slipped by & got coverage, your death benefit would be held because you committed perjury. Higher death benefit payouts co.'s will do a through investigation. Lower benefits minor investigation. Dollar amt.s I do not know, must vary by co. Clayton you are correct about children complicating the issue. Good parents want a better life for their children (a unwritten humanistic clause) than they have.With the loss of job, the divorce , I feel like I let my family down. I know this is self stigma kicking me in the ass. Experts say self stigma (to some) is one of the most difficult bi-products of MI. Guess I am living proof of that. Jtokc your statement of suicide is not a good solution is right on. The 4th leading cause of death in the US is adolescent & teen suicide. One of the primary reasons for this is teens & adolescents have not developed good coping skills because of the limited time. Sadly they pick a perminate solution to a temporary problem. I am very moved by your responses. Thanks.
Joe Buck
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The Most I Can Do For My Friend
... Is Simply To Be His Friend—Thoreau
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k
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2008, 08:45:42 PM » |
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no one will like what i have to say so stop now!! no really don't read this you will disagree!!...no one will agree with me that my uncle did the bravest thing. no one will agree with me that i thought he took the best way out. he had kids but as adults they abandoned him to his MI. he had grandkids he wasn't allowed to meet. his parents had died and well a really bad lawyer and a father who screwed up on his mother's deathbed left him without support. he had no insurance and too much pride or too much disability to get any help and no one else would help him. all i know about him is that he was smart, he could build anything. the rest i know i heard; he was scary and could be mean and you couldn't trust him and i was never allowed to see him alone and i didn't. but my sister did. she had a drink with him and said he was nice and very strange. and his heart was ailing and he didn't trust doctors or hospitals and he knew there was no place for him and he shot himself in the right place with the right caliber gun. it couldn't have been easy, you can tell it was thought out. it was the only logical choice for a man who had nothing else or nowhere to turn. and i'm glad he had the nerver considering his situation.
my friends death was tragic. i think she could have gotten better help but not from her parents. her mother was the Ice queen and I KNOW she preferred suicide to having to deal with a MI daughter. she had no kids. she only had a couple of friends and i was one of them and i wasn't there enough and her pain was so intense it was soo intense. she really only left me and a couple friends behind. i miss her still and she tried so hard, harder than anyone i know to have a normal life. a life she was never going to have.
my professor was so smart. he was so smart. too smart to be a teacher. too gay to accept himself. and just so pained. so pained. all he wanted was to read to debate to realize answers were impossible and to prove his cat was real. so smart, so tortured, so alone. i don't know how he did it i only knew he was gone and that his intensity burned those around him and perhaps he just exploded. i don't know all the circumstances he was so intense, he was so intense - did he ever had adequeate help?
i am not going to talk about myself except to say i was never going to resemble normal. i was never going to be loved by anyone normal. my friends got tired of abby normal. and i got tired-er. i've tried most methods and sometimes came close to succeeding. they were not cries for attention they were cries of complete and utter hopeless despair. today i am so glad i didn't succeed. it's been over 8 years and until recently nothing close to serious contemplation but now i'm back to those roving thoughts and i have very few few people to hurt and my husband he wants to go with me. it may be my own fault i am alone now. but then i'm not sick...
please don't be mad at me for writing this in the gen'l discussion. it's just where it started. i'm sorry.
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in the end, only kindness matters...jewel
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high maintenence
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2008, 11:30:01 PM » |
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K....I do not disagree with you. Everyone's situation is different, you said so as you were talking about the different circumstances that each person had in their lives...Walk a day in someone's shoes before you judge is what I always say. We can say that you should or that you shouldn't all day long, but when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, it's a personal choice and whether it is right or wrong, I don't believe that someone commits suicide because they intend to hurt anyone except themselves. Every situation is different. I don't want for anyone to do away with themselves, but the fact of the matter is that they do. We all know the reasons, and the pros and cons in every situation weigh differently. You have nothing to apologize for. I'm usually the one that differs in the opinions of others on this site, but I try not to worry about it. That's what we are here for, is it not?
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Joe Buck
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2008, 02:35:28 AM » |
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K...In 1974 I got engaged to a wonderful, beautiful young lady named Janice. So like any engaged couple we started to plan our wedding. We went to see a newly released film called "Love Story." The film was about two collage students that fell in love. As their love for each other grew, they got engaged. Then tragically they found out that she had cancer. The theme of the film was how their love for each other was tested by this terrible fate. This quote was the backbone on the film, "Love is never having to say I'm sorry." Jan & I critiqued the film. We both felt that lackluster acting diminished a good story line. I fall short of words to describe what happened 4 months latter. Jan was told that she had ovarian cancer. Ironically we were living our own "Love Story." Jan had a three year battle with cancer & passed away on Nov 24, 1977. My abruptness in telling our "Love Story" is not to misrepresent. I wish all of you could have met Jan, she was all of that & then some. Jan will always be my soul mate.
"Love is never having to say I'm sorry" seems, at first, to be a trite quote. I being the consummate romantic realized it had a much more profound meaning. All of us bpbabblers should refrain from stating I'm sorry. The foundation of this site, is the love & respect for one another. K...thankyou for sharing your heartfelt thoughts. It takes great courage to share one's intermost thoughts. "Love is never having to say I'm sorry"
Joe Buck (Bob)
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The Most I Can Do For My Friend
... Is Simply To Be His Friend—Thoreau
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high maintenence
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2008, 03:05:38 PM » |
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Joe, I find it not useful to say I'm sorry anymore. I'm sorry means to me that it won't happen again and with me, I say I'm sorry and then turn right around and do it again. It doesn't matter to say "I'm sorry" if you are going to continue the pattern.
I remember that movie, it was a popular one and made everybody cry.
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